还是老问题：自住房转投资房的税务问题

suefish

最近刚买了第二套房子，在这个版转了好几天，还是有些问题不明白，希望各位高人给与指点。

我们两年前买的UNIT，24万，贷款18万，是INTEREST+PRINCIPLE，没有OFFSET，付到现在贷款余额还有五万，UNIT增值到31万。现在新买了一个房，要三月底SETTLE，准备把现有UNIT REFINANCE 到24万8千，其中除去原有贷款余额5万有19万8千用于付新房子的钱，不足部分在新买的房子上贷款。

看了好多帖子，都说如果SETTLE以后马上住到新买的房子里去，现有UNIT转成投资房，报税时只能报5万贷款余额的利息。那如果我现在先REFINANCE现有的UNIT，钱放在OFFSET账号里，等两个月后新买的房子SETTLEMENT的时候用OFFSET账号里的前去SETTLE，SETTLEMENT后UNIT转投资房，是否就可以按24万8千的贷款额度来算利息报税呢？

税务局到底是按照自住房变成投资房的那一刻的贷款余额来算呢，还是有别的算法？ 实在想不明白，请大家帮忙看看？看了妖版的置顶帖子，大受启发，但是里面的例子很复杂，自己做不知道怎么操作，实在想看看有没有简单一点的办法。

billwong999

现在做Refinance已经改变不了什么了，你可以用来扣税只能是5万元

sunflowerseed

"税务局到底是按照自住房变成投资房的那一刻的贷款余额来算呢，还是有别的算法？"

也想知道. 多少时间以后才可以.还是永远都不可以

lovesunday

我也想问问. 拿LZ的房子做例子, 如果LZ现在REFINANCE 到24万8千,多出来的钱放到OFFSET中, 2年以后再买一个房子搬去自住, UNIT转成投资房, 那时可不可以按24万8千的贷款额度来算利息报税呢？

findcaiyzh

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黑山老妖

LZ的情况还是把《房地产投资 - 之四：资金管理和利用》给好好的学习了。我向obama保证，绝对有用。为了钱，再复杂也要学习。

click

我的理解是都不可以，如果住到新买的房子里，无论怎样都只能5万元。
其实ATO的思路也很简单，就是你贷款出来的钱干吗去了。这个例子里，无论怎样操作，贷款出来的钱都是给自住房贷款了。能够获得税务优惠的，只能是钱投资去了。
如果想获得最大税务优惠，只能住在现在的房子里，新买的房子做投资房。

click

偶在新足迹最大的收获之一，就是买房前仔仔细细拜读了老妖的大作，受益颇多。
再次加分鼓励。
今天的分分全给你了，不多，不要嫌弃啊。

原帖由 黑山老妖 于 2010-1-20 12:42 发表
LZ的情况还是把《房地产投资 - 之四：资金管理和利用》给好好的学习了。我向obama保证，绝对有用。为了钱，再复杂也要学习。

lovesunday

原帖由 click 于 2010-1-20 12:47 发表
我的理解是都不可以，如果住到新买的房子里，无论怎样都只能5万元。
其实ATO的思路也很简单，就是你贷款出来的钱干吗去了。这个例子里，无论怎样操作，贷款出来的钱都是给自住房贷款了。能够获得税务优惠的，只能是 ...

贷款出来的钱放在OFFSET帐号上,然后用来买股票, 两年后卖了股票,钱拿去买了新房子. 这样怎么算? 好象也不行.

[ 本帖最后由 lovesunday 于 2010-1-20 15:03 编辑 ]

lovesunday

我觉得这是ATO最不合理的一条规定. 如果LZ一开始就有OFFSET, 只付利息, 多的钱全进OFFSET, 拿这钱去买新房子就可以18W利息报税. 现在只能5W利息报税. 两种做法对政府,对社会,对银行,完全一样,但对LZ就很不一样.

lovesunday

还有一种方式不知合不合法, 以LZ的房子为例, UNIT欠5W. 再借10W去买新房. 如果LZ还有一套早买的投资房, 可以借10W出来, 把这10W放到UNIT里去. 15W的利息都拿去报税.  我猜这也是不合法的.哪位高手能给说说.

tommyinnz

原帖由 lovesunday 于 2010-1-20 15:02 发表
我觉得这是ATO最不合理的一条规定. 如果LZ一开始就有OFFSET, 只付利息, 多的钱全进OFFSET, 拿这钱去买新房子就可以18W利息报税. 现在只能5W利息报税. 两种做法对政府,对社会,对银行,完全一样,但对LZ就很不一样.

offset 的优势就完全显示出来鸟。。。。。如果有offset的话，就可把钱全部转走， 这样税务优惠最大化，也最省事。。。。

zn7726

两种做法对政府,对社会,对银行,完全一样,但对LZ就很不一样

对银行不一样, 银行要charge offset年费的, 每年300-400哪

sunflowerseed

原帖由 click 于 2010-1-20 12:47 发表
我的理解是都不可以，如果住到新买的房子里，无论怎样都只能5万元。
其实ATO的思路也很简单，就是你贷款出来的钱干吗去了。这个例子里，无论怎样操作，贷款出来的钱都是给自住房贷款了。能够获得税务优惠的，只能是 ...

还在自住时, 全部重新做贷款行吗.

luckynumber

额，看来如果第一个房子打算今后做投资的，要么跑上来就弄个OFFSET帐户，要么贷款不要还那么快，像楼主那样两年从１８万还到５万的好象享受不到什么NEGATIVE GEARING的好处，不过这两年利息省了不少。其实怎么操作都差不太多。即便有NEGATIVE GEARING，那也只省了３０％，７０％还是要以现金形式付出去的。

click

在两年买股票的期间里，如果其中的利息可以OFFSET股票的受益。然后钱又回来了，再花出去，干什么了，没买自己的房子了，所以就不能再OFFSET利息了。
还是那句话，你的钱只有在投资的情况下，才可以冲抵一部分收入。什么是投资，就是会产生收入的。买投资房是有房租收入的，自住房哪里有收入啊。

原帖由 lovesunday 于 2010-1-20 14:54 发表

贷款出来的钱放在OFFSET帐号上,然后用来买股票, 两年后卖了股票,钱拿去买了新房子. 这样怎么算? 好象也不行.

click

还是没有理解ATO的关键。
钱从哪里来不是问题，问题是做什么用的。
只要是投资房，不管是从自住房里贷出来，还是从其他投资房里贷出来，还是直接贷款，都可以获得税务优惠。因为钱用作投资了。
只要是自住房，不管钱从哪里来，都不行。

原帖由 sunflowerseed 于 2010-1-20 15:54 发表

还在自住时, 全部重新做贷款行吗.

suefish

I checked with my accountang and a banker yesterday, both of them said I could redraw my loan up to the current loan limit before settlement of the new house, and the interest occurs on this loan can be claimed as expense of investement property.  

My loan was $180,000 initially, after two years now the limit is around $160,000, that means I can still claim interest on $160,000. My accoutant said technically $50,000 would be the loan I can claim but actually ATO would allow me to claim on $160,000 as I didn't have to repay so much of my loan during the past 2 years. The banker said the same thing.

That makes much sense then.

lovesunday

That makes sense.

黑山老妖

原帖由 suefish 于 21/1/2010 11:54 发表
I checked with my accountang and a banker yesterday, both of them said I could redraw my loan up to the current loan limit before settlement of the new house, and the interest occurs on this loan can  ...

What your accountant said was a bit confusing for me.
So technically you can only claim $50k, but they might allow for $160K. Did you get a second opinion on that? In some instances you might need to get a private ruling to be sure, if the situation is a bit ambigious.
Don't want to risk getting a big fine.

click

Q:
I have a redraw facility on the mortgage of my property. Can I pay off/down loan for the interim then redraw later to regain negative gearing benefits when this property is used as investment?

A.
You need to keep in mind that the purpose of a loan must be to buy income producing assets such as property and shares if you wish to claim the interest as a tax deduction. If you use the proceeds of your residence to repay the loan on your property you will forever lose the right to claim a tax deduction for the interest on that property and if you redraw the loan to buy another residence that interest will not be tax deductible either. A much better option is to place the funds in an offset account as you will then be able to maintain the status quo while saving interest.

So I don't know why your accountant and broker told you these.
Perhaps it is the difference between TECHNICALLY and ACTUALLY.

So it is your property and your money. So you make your decision.

suefish

原帖由 黑山老妖 于 2010-1-21 12:27 发表


What your accountant said was a bit confusing for me.
So technically you can only claim $50k, but they might allow for $160K. Did you get a second opinion on that? In some instances you might nee ...

Thank you for the suggestion. My accountant is a quite good one and has been in practice for years, plus the banker confirmed that as well so I guess I could give it a shot. Plus my tax return gonna be done by that accountant, if I got a fine from ATO I can actually sue my accoutnant, can I? Not saying I am going to do that but that would give him a bit weight...

I have some law background I'd say it does make sense from the law point of view. Because if I don't over repay my loan I could use those money for personal purpose anyway. I probably call ATO today to confirm.

BTW, your TIEZI is really good, if I haven't read that I would still be dreaming for a big tax return this year.

suefish

"If you use the proceeds of your residence to repay the loan on your property you will forever lose the right to claim a tax deduction for the interest on that property "

This is the part I couldn't understand. If I redrew and overpaid the loan many times in a year, my loan balance would be up and down from time to time, from which point ATO could decide the amount I can claim?  I guess that's why the accountant said I can use my loan limit as the base to calcluate deductable interest, cause that's much more operable

patricb

原帖由 suefish 于 2010-1-21 12:35 发表


Thank you for the suggestion. My accountant is a quite good one and has been in practice for years, plus the banker confirmed that as well so I guess I could give it a shot. Plus my tax return gon ...

I'm afraid that the banker should not give you any tax advise if he is not accredited.
I'm interested to see what's the outcome after you speak to ATO. Please keep updated. Thanks

sunflowerseed

原帖由 suefish 于 2010-1-21 12:35 发表


Thank you for the suggestion. My accountant is a quite good one and has been in practice for years, plus the banker confirmed that as well so I guess I could give it a shot. Plus my tax return gon ...

Can you let us know your result. Hopefully it is a postive one, as the advice I received in a similar situation was not very attractive. It seems selling is the best option. If you really want to keep it and it is currently joint-owned, you may sell it to the higner income earner, you maybe able to avoid the stamp duty and claim more interst expesnes.

黑山老妖

原帖由 suefish 于 21/1/2010 12:35 发表
Thank you for the suggestion. My accountant is a quite good one and has been in practice for years, plus the banker confirmed that as well so I guess I could give it a shot. Plus my tax return gon ...

I would be very interested in the advice you get from ATO. Please keep us posted.
Thank you.

chinara

这么说，一个有redraw 功能的home loan 账户和offset 账户相比，前者没有任何优势。。后着可以完成前者的所有功能，还能随时提出投资做tax deduction。。

似乎offset 账户唯一的缺点就是一般需要年费。。比如westpac 要395.。

findcaiyzh

同样期待结果，我们也没有使用offset。

感觉redraw出来的钱不能随便花，有点不合理吧。

如果现在redraw出来1w块买车自用。
5年后自住转投资，难道这1w块的利息不能报税吗？

[ 本帖最后由 findcaiyzh 于 2010-1-22 17:03 编辑 ]

moshou

REDRAW出来的钱当然可以随便花，但是不能随便报税。
这么解释一下吧，如果不REDRAW这1W，那么买车你得贷款吧。
现在REDRAW了，买车就不用贷款了。
那么等于你买车贷款的钱给报税了。
这在ATO看来，是私人用途拿来报税，自然是不行的。

OFFSET就不一样。OFFSET和HOMELOAN是两个独立的帐户，OFFSET相当于你个人的存款帐户，不是你房屋的资产，只不过它可以在数值上等于可以抵消一部分贷款。

“感觉redraw出来的钱不能随便花，有点不合理吧。
如果现在redraw出来1w块买车自用。
5年后自住转投资，难道这1w块的利息不能报税吗”